Originally by: Riaz Qaadir

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A lot of exaggerations from both sides here, but then you donÆt get anything by saying ôwe need small tweaksö, got to make things sound world ending (am I right 2008 amarr bros?). Got 5 mins to kill so hereÆs my takeà

Typhoon û ItÆs okay, its EFT stats are pretty good but hard to get in game (speaking as player who has a char specÆd for full t2 Typhoon). Torps only have 20km range, lose damage on anything thatÆs moving slightly and thatÆs smaller than 450 (huge battleship ie. rokh). ACÆs have rubbish base damage with the ROF bonus with no damage mods and lose damage from less range than blasters, itÆs the drone bay that rescues its damage. As far as its tank, only option is passive armour because it has rubbish armour HP, has more shield HP ffs, never mind trying to fit an active tank.

Tempest û ItÆs below average at everything, something always does it better. ACÆs with ROF and DMG bonus with no damage mods only give around same DPS per weapon as a Siege launcher with no bonuses. With only 6 lows youÆre limited in how much you can increase that damage without making it a tin can tank. Sniping, your dps is ok but your range is worst, tracking is worst, and once you reload dps is worst. Why use the lowest range, worst tracking, lowest dps sniper?

Maelstrom û ACÆs damage isnÆt bad here compared to ACÆs on Pest/Typhoon because you shield tank so always can fit 3 gyroÆs. Only problem I have is same as with Cyclone/Sleipnir/Claymore, bonus is best solo/tinygang yet to do solo/tinygang you need to tackle but that takes the same slots as your tank modsà oxymoron tank bonus.

Cane û Fine when fit/used correctly. Cyclone û Apart from bonus (see above) an extra turret is needed.

Sleipnir/Claymore û Fine apart from bonus.

Vagabond û It was never a damage dealer compared to other races (sure EFT peak is nice but thatÆs at like 2km), was always the ôit can run awayö factor that made people like it in a world of blobbing. 4 mids on a shield tanker doesnÆt give you many options, a bit more base HP wouldnÆt hurt since its survivability is reduced (especially with warp scrams switching mwd off).

Muninn û Suffers how most arty ships suffer except poor tracking is fixed by tracking bonus just leaving poor range/dps compared to other options. No real tanking options with 3 mids and 5 lows with two huge armour resistance holes. 2 misc highs are pretty pointless when sniping.

Recons û Yeah they arenÆt as good due to web changes. Thing is reducing web performance has increased the effect of TPÆs. Rapier can sort of fit a 4 slot armour tank hence fit webs and TPÆs but Huginn with 3 lows is pretty poor, especially with missile changes. 1 low and cloaking vs 3 missilesà IÆll take Rapier everytime now. Change Huginn so its webbing performance is better by replacing TP bonus with web effectiveness bonus.

Inties û Stilleto is fine at its tackling job. ClawÆs cpu and targeting range are rubbish. Never mind its mass is stupidly heavy for a minny ship leaving it very ungainly for a minny ship (but base speed compensates to give good mwd speed).

AF û EveryoneÆs old favourite argument with the backwards bonuses. Either way could use more pg for arty setups, even 250s limit choices drastically with the usual minny arty issues (tracking/range/dps).

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Originally by: Random Womble

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Originally by: Kagura Nikon

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I am minmatar and must say a few poitns a pure bull312#!@#!@

Arties have MORE dps than rail! Their only real issues are very limited range and the very small clip. Solve the clip issue and all is ok.


Typhoon is the BS can can field more tank and gank at same time. No other battleship can dish 900 dps with 7 SLOT TANK!

The recons and capitals although really need some love.

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To get just under 900 dps with no damage mods fitted and max skill on a typhoon you have to fit 4 torp launchers 4 800mm autos and 5 ogre IIs using Rep Fleet EMP and CN Torps then you have just over 1000 PG to fit all your other slots oh and you will need a target painter to even get full damage on BS . However a mega will do around the same DPS with no fittings using neutrons with CN anti and 5xOgre II and have 4500 PG left for the rest of its fittings (same mids and lows) along with a spare high slot.

The Neutrons on the mega will have better tracking than the autos on the phoon and because of the tiny range of torps even with max skills you will probably want to stay within 15kms of your target minimum with the phoon so the range wont be too diffrent.

Add in mega has more base EHP and more base armor and finally you will need around 7mil more SP to get those stats with the typhoon due to the missile skills and things really dont look to good

Alternatively if you want to look at tier 1 BS we could use the geddon instead of mega yes it does about 50 less DPS but then it can outrange a torp phoon it does admittedly have some cap issues and slot layout is -1 med +1 low but it also still uses 7mil less SP and the typhoons extra med is going to have to have TP anyway and DPS can be added by making that extra low slot a heat sink then geddon does more dps than phoon and still has more PG left to fit tanking mods.

And since we are talking about tier 1 ships here we should be asking why on earth the first level of battleships for minmatar should require so many skillpoints to be even semi effective.

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